Tuesday, September 02, 2008

Who and what are the "Progressives?"

I posted on Rose's blog the definition of "progressives" as:

Progressives are Political people who are moving forward; proceeding onward; advancing; evincing progress; increasing; as, progressive motion or course; opposed to retrograde. Improving. Promoting or favoring progress toward better conditions or new policies, ideas, or methods. Favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are.

That started debate that delved more into semantics.

I consider myself a "progressive" and I am more of a "Doer" or "Trier" than a "Talker." I have a record backing that.

Advocates for "improvement" is best summation. But that is just one opinion.

The "progressive" label can fit both Liberal Democrats and change minded Republicans. Just look at their agenda and record.


orwell said...

Remember Richard, that what is "improvement" to some is not necessarily "improvement" to another. For instance, some may consider developing the bay with heavy industry and having lots of ships coming in and out of the harbor an improvement. Others may argue that having less ships and less industry surrounding the bay is improvement. Beauty (or improvement) is truly in the eye of the beholder. So is "improvement" the best summation? Perhaps not.

Anonymous said...

Progressives establish in themselves an incomplete understanding of the world, its history, its people and its cultures. Then they formulate a plan to make all the bad things disappear by one means or another. When the immutable law of unintended consequences ruins their plans, they try, try again. Inevitably, however, if they live long enough, they become embittered old reactionaries who long fervently for the good old days that came before all their well-intentioned efforts screwed everything up so royally.

Rose said...

I'm still asking you to give me examples of something positive that "progressives" have done here, Richard, since they are asking us to stack the City Council's with a "progressive" majority. Nothing about what that means, of course.

I'll tell you what - I'll give you Gallegos and Measure T - got any more?

Anonymous said...

I thought it was meaner, nastier, venom spitting liberal with new packaging. I also thought it meant "absolutely no negotiating", like Communist Russia.

Rose said...

I think the "progressives" are probably a little nonplussed to find that (this) Richard is one of them. I would argue that Eric Kirk most certainly is, as he seems to me to be one of the ones pushing the "progressive" candidates.

(This) Richard found out just how much they supported him last time he ran for office - thus my surprise at his adamant stance as a "Progressive."

That - and his description, while lovely, just doesn't fit. It's like putting a lovely beaded silk doll's dress on a warthog, and adding lipstick.

samoasoftball said...

Rose: I am a progressive.

I have organized workers to become union members. I have helped thousands of working class manufacturing workers garner better wages and benefits.

I have directed thousands in youth and adult leagues and tournaments. And coached youth sports for nearly 30 years.

I have organized businesses locally in North Eureka as a lobbyist in the 90's.

Helped raise funds for Humboldt Domestic Violence Services and serve on the board.

Director for Samoa Peninsula Fire District.

Elected representative on the HCDCC. Not Appointed!

Organized youth in clean-up in Samoa.

(PS-I am also an elected Union President.)

A working progressive.

Find out what each of your candidates have done for their community, and judge for yourself if they are worthy of the tag, "progressive."

I just gave you a guideline to follow.

Anonymous said...

How many progressives have labored all their lives in the struggle, yet been completely ignored once they retired? What does that say about a "movement" that sees itself as humane and loving?

Anonymous said...

Someone said one time that you are as full of shit as a Christmas goose. In this respect that assesment is spot on. To call yourselves a progressive is as foolish as calling yourselve a republican or a democrat. To belive the bull s%#t is proof positive of a mental illness.

Carson Park Ranger said...

Richard, it should read "Who and what are the progressives.?"

"How many progressives have labored all their lives in the struggle, yet been completely ignored once they retired?"

Would a medal make you feel better?

High Plains Drifter said...

I am curious if the 2 progey candidates will wear the progressive full meatl jacket throughout the whole campaign. Can they talk it, walk it, Wear it and shout it out loud and proud the whole way through until November? They've declared openly what they are, now they must Embrace and Wear it until the curtain comes down on this show. Watch to see if they try to take off the progressive costume during the campaign and distance themselves from what they proclaim to be. You can't be in the gang, but not in the gang when it doesn't suit you. That's politics, not public service.

Anonymous said...


I'm not sure that the fine community service that you have done defines you as a progressive.

Union organizing, sure, but working with youth, serving on non profits, and the like are hardly the domain of progressives alone.

Mychal "Rambo" Evenson said...

What Webster has to say on the subject :)

"Main Entry: 1pro·gres·sive
Pronunciation: \prə-ˈgre-siv\
Function: adjective
Date: circa 1612
1 a: of, relating to, or characterized by progress b: making use of or interested in new ideas, findings, or opportunities c: of, relating to, or constituting an educational theory marked by emphasis on the individual child, informality of classroom procedure, and encouragement of self-expression
2: of, relating to, or characterized by progression
3: moving forward or onward : advancing
4 a: increasing in extent or severity; progressive disease b: increasing in rate as the base increases;
5often capitalized : of or relating to political Progressives
6: of, relating to, or constituting a verb form that expresses action or state in progress at the time of speaking or a time spoken of
7: of, relating to, or being a multifocal lens with a gradual transition between focal lengths; progressive bifocals
8: or, relating to, or using a method of video scanning (as for television or a computer monitor) in which the horizontal lines of each frame are drawn successively from top to bottom— compare interlaced"

Rose said...

Nothing you list adds up to "progressive" unless you are now working WITH Salzman, (this) Richard,

Sorry. Union organizing - Dem - at least the real old school Dems. Seems the party has lost its way in Humboldt County recently, though. Maybe that's why you feel the need to call yourself something else.

Hard work - Dem - at least historically.

But - is you really are one, you can explain this one

George Clark's fundraising message reads this way: :Dear Friend:

I am writing you today to ask for your assistance. Since I have announced my intention to run for City Council, I have been heartened by your expressions of support. Now with Democrat Linda Atkins joining with me to run for Eureka's City Council, we have the first opportunity in 150 years to form a progressive voting majority for the citizens of Eureka!"

The first time in 150 YEARS!!! WOW! How have we survived?

Did you REALIZE "Progressives" have been lurking at the fringes for 150 YEARS, Richard?

You're smarter than that.

orwell said...

Richard, the only thing progressive about you is the amount of crap you try to feed us on this blog.

GB05 said...

'Progressive' is the modern term for 'Socialist'. You know, the folks who are anti-capitalism.

Rose said...

Let's try this one, Richard - WHO on the Harbor Commission is a "Progressive?"

You care about working people and Labor.

Tell me who on the Harbor Commission cares about working people and Labor - in the sense of who is working to IMPROVE the employment opportunities and stimulate jobs for Longshoremen, and other Labor groups?

And tell me which ones are working to discourage and shut down every single glimmer of opportunity - not just temper it with sensible accomodations, but outright shut it down? Who is crying poor and woe is us, we can't and who thinking proactively?

Your honest take.

samoasoftball said...

That is a fair question Rose. My Honest take.

Patrick Higgins and Mike Wilson and Dennis Hunter and Roy Curless and Ronnie Pellegrini.

All trying to do the best for our community. All looking at all alternatives. All hoping for the best plans to move forward. Just at different levels.

Rose: You have to agree the information loop has been all over the board.

I am pro rail and port development. Let the proposals keep coming.

Progressive me. Or Working Class Democrat. I am looking for new label.

Anonymous said...

How about just being yourself, Richard and don't worry about the lables.

Support the best candidates for the local NONpartisan elections.

Anonymous said...

I wonder what socialism would have become if Lenin and Stalin had never risen to power in Russia.

Anonymous said...

But then, I often wonder pointlessly about things of limited relevance to the topic at hand.

Not A Native said...

My Quick Take:

Conservatives: Have lots of children who are disciplined to believe that people in authority are never to be questioned and always obeyed

Liberals: Have about 2.1 children who are raised to believe that happiness is the goal of life and the role of people in authority should be to make everyone happy.

Progressives: Believe in having 0-1 child who is taught to question and doubt anyone in authority and that the goal of life is freedom of expression and action.

High Plains Drifter said...

NAN- do not forget to add to the Progressive definition that the goal here is to create a Voting Majority (just like they do in congress...very effective) on city council in order to Advance Their Political Agenda (sounds like public service to me)...just so the voters know what kind of Progressive love they're gonna receive and how the voters are gonna receive it. George Clark boasted this goal on day 1.

Not A Native said...

Don't be disingenuous and pointing fingers High Plains.

All political factions seek to gain and retain majority power. Thats what democracy is created to make happen. Conservatives are largely in power and want to keep it that way.

Singling out the Progressives as wanting power, like you have, is an intended slur, implying they are "power mad" and distracts from the fact that Conservatives have the exact same goal.

Leisure Suit Larry said...

NAN- then Clark-Atkins needs to voice that goal Loud and Proud throughout the whole campaign and not Conveniently Back Away From It.

Not A Native said...

leisure suit. So what do you want them to do?

Is there something about their running for office, and saying "Vote for me, I want to win", that you don't understand?

Leisure Suit Larry said...

NAN- they're openly tied to their Political Camp and Political Agenda (that's special interest by the way)...all that's left for them to do is the goose stepping down Fifth Street. Their agenda serves their own interests, not all citizens. The other candidates aren't necessarily the best, but at least they don't belong to an organized gang. Clark-Atkins are beholden to their special interest group while crying that same foul against their opponents. That just doesn't hold water. Weak. They represent the status quo- Politics uber alles.